Slaves and Hated Ghetto Thugs

So how does it feel to be a walking basket case of all the symptoms of people who’ve been slaves — or exploited, hated ghetto ‘thugs,’ for 530 years? Many Black people apparently don’t know, because they have rarely noticed that’s what has been going on with me.

I have been really, really good at being a ‘White girl’ in this culture. I say ‘this’ culture, meaning within the American Black subculture, which is why I’ve survived here for 45 years. I’ve been really good at it because I’m an imposter playing a role to please the people around me, discouraged from being who I really am, or saying what I really think, except maybe one-on-one, behind closed doors.  Like people were ashamed of me, or annoyed with me calling any kind of attention to myself.

I was desperate.

I am not very far from my grandmother’s psyche. She was bullied into pretending she was from the people who were exterminating us. Okay,  Stop,  Listen.  I just said my shit was worse than yours. I just actually, right up in your face, told you that my shit was worse, when I’ve been White every day of my life enjoying a privilege that is better than anything you’ll ever get on the best day of your life (unless you go to Serbia). Yep, I am right in your face and saying that. Not over it yet? Or can we get back to why I was desperate?

Other than Jews, there were no White people here who made any damn sense to me. They were not speaking my language. I mean all the subtle things you never think about, but are influencing everything you do. Like how loud do you need to get to satisfy your need to speak? How emotional and confiding do you need to get to engage my attention?  How much physical affection do you need expressed:  a touch, a nudge, whatever?  What do you like to talk about? Do you like talking about how you expect the world to treat you, and how you feel about that?

I can’t ever stop talking about that. I have to talk about it all the time because that’s how my daddy raised me. He was a Krajina Serb, the minority Serbs of Croatia (formerly), who didn’t know who he was, or what had been happening to us. He thought he was an American Bigot, a natural progression from a mid-century Croatian, what we were forced to pass for. And he raised me to contradict him. He raised me to be the opposite. What’s the opposite of a white bigot?

 

A Serb. Of course there was some confusion since it sounded like he was raising me to be a Black Militant. That started at about the age of eight, so I guess I had those first eight years to think I was just a little girl growing up and not a Black Militant. A little odd, but what was the alternative? Being what we hate? We have better sense than that. We had no idea what was going on, but we still had better sense than that.

People like us just innately feel that people who think they’re better than other people are disgusting. And that’s how we survived as long as we did, the only reason we’ve survived as long as we did, because we never let go of that thought. People who act like they’re better than other people are disgusting.  (Don’t forget the italics.)

We’ve got a whole religion built around that concept — saints, legends, songs, culture. The average illiterate Serb peasant knew more about his history than the average Englishman at the turn of the last century. Then there’s the theology – what God wants us to be so that he will really love us. He wants us to think that people who think they’re better than other people are disgusting. Now that’s what I call a sophisticated slave religion. I had never been inside a Serbian church but that was still the most important edict in my life,  Just second nature.

 

We have to keep talking about this shit. It’s a compulsion. A Serbian compulsion, inherent in our nature. Everybody notices it.

So Grandma was forced to pass for the equivalent of White in order to survive. When you all tell me that I am White, and must be White, or I’m not giving you enough respect, you are asking me to pass for White again. Do you understand what you’re asking of me, and how absolutely pit bull mad it makes me to see you being so utterly hypocritical?

Do you want me to show you some Serbian ghetto? We just went through 350 years as ghetto thugs. Do you understand what kind of issues those create? Like that issue of wondering if you’re going to be allowed to exist. We have a lot stronger reason to have a very very very negative expectation. As negative as you can get. Extinction. We don’t exist anymore.

Ever known an extinct person before? The entire ghetto culture of NYC, with all its incredible gifts, including everything that ever spun out from it on the planet, no longer exists. It has been liquidated or credited to something/someone else. Sure you’ve known someone who was extinct. Your NDN grandma. I got one of those too. (That’s who set my mom up with my dad.)

I am just a basket case of that whole universe of loss. Don’t you understand why it was so important that I love you all?  For me to see how beautiful you all are means we could see why we’re so special, again. We had accepted every vile thing they said about us, and believed it to an extent that we were willing to surrender to them. And be happy with whatever crumbs we were thrown. And living with a self-esteem seriously in the red.

That was an eleven-year-old, illiterate, shoe-less orphan who made that decision to pass, fresh in from the fields. A stranger in a strange land. She had to sit quietly and accept being baptized as a Croatian so they would tolerate her. Did I say tolerate? Or did I say use? Then she had to sit quietly while Croatian fascists in the Old Country viciously slaughtered half of her family. And never say a word.

 

Yep, we were a little messed up behind that. So that’s what it will be like, IF it ever gets to that here, again. Those are the kinds of survivors you can expect.

You know how Jewish guys are always talking about all the phases that people surviving a holocaust go through? That was always just so sexy to me. It totally got to the heart of where I live. It was what resonated beyond anything I’d ever heard. Oh, what was that? I was just playing the same role to you, you were playing for your daddy? And I just happened to know exactly what to do to get everything to turn out right? Now how could I have done such a thing? I was just a shiksa. You don’t trust shiksa. Or was I really a woman who had been dealing with exactly that for 500 years and knew how to keep it together? That was my job.

 

There we go again, that blaring message that I was being pressured to pass for ‘white,’ (shiksa = white girl) to let someone play games to suit their own head, that negated me. They’d been pressuring us to pass for centuries. Do you have any idea what kind of torment that is? Or is that something you agonize over every day?

You all were not being Jewish or men of color to me. The way I process it, y’all were being Croatian, pressuring me to pass for Croatian (White). You know, those people who were exterminating us in our ghetto. That elaborate shit where they have this entire infrastructure developed for mass killing you, while taking as much pleasure in it as they possibly can.

This is when everybody in the county is getting lynched the same day, though not really lynched because that takes too much manpower and time. Plus it’s too humane.  Serbian-wome-lynchedBetween WW! and WWII they figured out it’s gotta be something like slitting 1,200 throats a day, with a specially-designed ergonomic knife. You know track them down to school and do them in an orderly way, right in the school room. A rate of production, I mean destruction, like that. And that’s happening in every county, in every state in the country. The same day. Srbosjek_(knife)_used_in_Croatia_-_1941–1945All that they have to do is win the next election, and they can do whatever they want to you. They’ll get everybody convinced that you’re attacking them. Oh, that’s right, they already are.

Things are more dire than you think they are. Seriously. They’re getting ready. We just went through this shit. Look at the record. The way they did us. How easy it is to get it to work. Especially when you got the US military / diplomatic / surveillance structure at your disposal. They’re grand masters at getting away with this shit while making it look like they’re humanitarians. They’re doing you a favor dismantling your country and putting Neo-Nazi fascists at your throat. They’re the ones who were behind the scenes, doing us this last go round. The ones who finished us off.

All you have to do is surf forums filled with Croatian trolls and you’ll find out how they stereotype us. They call us lazy, over-sexed gangsters. Yep, they hate us exactly the same way they hate you. Why do you think I relate so much? And I worry so much?

 

So that’s what you’re getting in bed with when you decide to play me for a White woman. You’ve got that nasty spectre standing over you. Gloating. He’s won. The Devil has won.

Really? You don’t mind being in that company? I’m sorry, but I’m just programmed to think that people who behave like they’re better than other people are disgusting. And it took them 350 years to keep us from thinking that, and they had to eradicate us from the face of the earth to get us to stop.

That’s right. I’m an extinct person. Take a moment to think that through. Maybe you need to have that quiet time-out again while we recover from me saying to you, right up in your face, that our shit is worse. It is. You DO NOT WANT to compete with this. You do not want them using the baby for a football, I mean a good long kick. Did you hear that thwack?

 

You do not want them cremating grandma alive, with her trying to scramble out of her deathbed in total terror and agony. You don’t want to compete with this. You just need to be grateful that it hasn’t happened to you. Yet.

That can always change. But you don’t want to know about any of that from me because you need to be able to feel that your shit is worse than mine. And that was my function in life for 40 years. Allowing you all to be more important than me. I was looking for somebody to take my ghetto ass in, and that’s the best deal I could get.

But you’re not better than me. There isn’t a single thing that’s special about you all, and inspiring, and admirable and amazing that we don’t have going on in spades. And yes, I did use that word. Get over it. I told you I was ghetto.

We really are very good at thinking about all this. And surviving. My family was culturally genocided 100 years ago while the rest were being physically genocided. AND WE’RE BACK. IT’S A MIRACLE!!! And I hit the ground running because I spent my whole life here incubating that mind. That beautiful Serbian mind that the world needs so badly.

No regrets. Who can regret a miracle?

And it wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for y’all.

Y’all saved me.

 

And that’s how I really feel.

And if you turn around and say something nasty and disrespectful about my dead, I will delete your comment and pray for you. So don’t even bother, unless you think you need the prayers.

33 thoughts on “Slaves and Hated Ghetto Thugs”

  1. Greetings Linda and congratulations on your conversion to the Serbian Orthodox Church. I am not a mean person or a “bad guy”; but sometimes I am accused of acting like one because of my love of truth. I am tolerated at Abagond’s but none of them like me and I suspect they would hang me if given the chance.

    Your perspective on race is valid because first and foremost you are a person. Indeed, given the complexities of Serbian history, you may have a more comprehensive understanding of racism than most African Americans; including me.

    The greatest flaw of African American blogs is their propensity to degenerate into “pep rallies” and “boosterism” of all things black… I find such behavior highly annoying given we have so many problems to solve.

    Black people have much to learn about race. We think we are experts; but we are really just expert victims. Im going to read thru your blog and may have some questions for you.

    Thanks.

    PS– regarding babies as footballs; yes, Ive seen some very disturbing video from the wars on Youtube (before google bought it and started censorship) I don’t doubt any evil you describe.

    1. Looks like you do some phenomenal role playing. Guess what the most common complaint is about Serbs? We are such VICTIMS!!! That’s kinda a bitch, when in fact, that is exactly what we’ve been. How else are we going to feel? But it is part of what leaves us in paralysis. The ‘gift’ that keeps on giving.

      I am getting worried that Google has been compromised by THEM. Whoever they are seeking to own and control us all. Just by making life more convenient and stimulating, we can all be enslaved. Hitler’s alive and well and learned to be much more inclusive. He wants to enslave and/or exterminate EVERYONE.

  2. Linda, how familiar are you with the Catholic/Protestant schism?

    In terms of white people, the U.S was founded and dominated by WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants) Generally, in the U.S the Orthodox Christians get tossed in the Catholic category by the Protestant elite (and Jews)

    When you are dealing with white people in the U.S, have you ever had an experience where you felt you were mistreated for being Serbian by a white person?

    Also, do you have an accent?

    and, what Celebrity do you resemble? (Im trying to get a sense of your physical appearance)

    The Serbian history was poorly address in the U.S during the war in Yugoslavia; I don’t know if you were here, but the Serbs were made out to be “the bad guys.” Like Nazis… but my point is, we in the U.S were given an anti Serb perspective by what I suspect was a white protestant/ Jew media power structure. I met two Serbs at the time, but they had difficulty explaining the war to me because I had no reference for how racism is practiced when people have somewhat similar physical appearance. I have since resolved that issue.

    BTW, for all those accusing you of being a white woman, you kinda have that strong will black woman “attitude”; have you ever been hit by a man? (LOL)

    How has your book been received?

    I suggest you hammer away on the race issue and do some audio interviews because at the rate the U.S is changing, black people will hafta deal with everything you are on Abagonds site; in many ways, we already are; and as you can see, we are making a “dogs meal” out of it.

    Good Luck.

  3. I’ve confused you a little. We’ve been here 100 years. Grandma ‘passed’ for Croatian. We didn’t know who we were. The only clue I had was that extraordinary loyalty and attachment to the people here who have gone through the same traumas, that and daddy raising me to contradict his racism at every turn. (He was trying so hard to be a bigot LOL) Got a huge amount of attention and inadvertent approval for that. We knew. Weird ways for it to come out, but we knew. Everything I’ve felt from day one has been completely consistent with the facts I did not know.

    It was a few years back when I went to write a memoir about what a godawful experience it was crossing the color line in Chicago at the age of 18 that I started researching grandma’s people and the sky fell. A lot of my reaction was joy to discover that I was the kind of person I loved. When you’ve been through what we’ve been through, self-esteem is a horrendous issue. Anyway, no accent. I’ve been learning Serbian for the last year. My teacher told me I do not have an American accent. I pronounced Serbian properly. I was very proud of myself.

    I realize one of the uphill battles of writing this story is the horrible propaganda that was pushed on America about Serbia. Check it out if you want to understand how the US is currently endeavoring to colonize and enslave people. Very slick Especially since the people being colonized think it’s American Black people doing it. (Who was the Joint Chief of Staff? Who’s the Head of State? Who takes the blame? ) Anyway, call it ‘humanitarian intervention.” You’ll notice the only countries intervened on in this ‘charitable way’ are those with strategic or economic value. The only time anyone reading my novel mistook something I was saying because of the propaganda was interestingly in a passage where the girl is grooving on things she admires about Black people. The reader was seeing strains of nationalism. LOL. It’s true. I’ve always felt an affinity towards militants.

    Celebrities I look like? Certainly not as pretty but in a vein with Natalie Wood or Christina Ricci. I’m 62. What about you? Describe yourself.

    It is very difficult for Black people to imagine racism that has nothing to do with appearance and is focused on forcing you to ‘pass’ rather than prohibiting you from passing. Now that I understand it I want to shout, ‘There are some hidden blessings here,’ this horrible burdensome thing of not being able to ever escape this persecution. There are so many horrendous evils they force on you when you are in a persecuted, exploited group where the oppression focuses on constantly tempting or coercing you into passing. It gets so incredibly twisted. Divide and conquer vs. hereditary slavery. But think about it, who survived better?

    Of course if I say that it will just be heard as me trying to dismiss black people rather than what I really mean. I guess I want to escape this burdensome position I’ve been in all these years, never taken seriously, never as important because I don’t have that physical marker of persecution on me. To suffer with all the same internal issues invisibly is no picnic. Especially when the people you’re loyal to use it as an excuse to lash out at you. You were talking about Black people always feeling like victims. LOL. I told u we’re alike. That’s been the conundrum, anything I see, even if it’s a PITA also resonates. LOL. I know I’m the same and nobody sees it. It makes me crazy.

    Anyway it really doesn’t make much difference in the way people turned out. Serbs and Blacks are so similar it constantly blows my mind. It’s the same vibe. The same soul. I can’t tell the difference. (Actually, we’re a bit more ghetto. Especially louder. But I always knew that. For years I’ve had people following me around, ‘Shhh, shhh. Some trophy you are!”) I’m thinking of going back to school and writing a thesis on parallel cultures.

    The response at Abagond hurts, but it’s not the first time I’m seeing this since finding all this out. It’s some kind of nightmare to spend your whole life paying this rapt attention and devoting your life to supporting people, and then you want to slip in for your little 15 minutes vs 45 years and you get stereotyped in intensely inappropriate ways and booed out of the room. Surreal. But White people in the Black family are poorly treated. There’s a tremendous amount of venting that goes on. It makes the persecution you’re getting from the White People so absurd. You can survive anything that means something, but absurdity is lethal. In general, Black people are very poor at identifying and supporting white allies.

    Have I ever been hit by a man? Once, and I left. Same dude I was with when the rednecks came after us with tire irons. My bf responded so ferociously they backed off, laughing, like ‘oh we were just playing.’ He’d grown up a pretty child on 42nd street (south side Chicago ghetto) who had to fight his way home every day. Very sweet guy, gifted photographer, never raised his voice. Should have instead of bottling things up till one day he popped. But that precedent can’t be tolerated.

    My book is in editing, being critiqued by other writers and a teacher at UCLA. It gets discouraging. Points I’m trying to make people can’t pick up because they go against their racial imprinting and brainwashing. Plus the plot line is weak. I have to solve that problem. Nobody Black is currently reading it. The big shut down I describe in the post above will likely do it in.

    Are you going to talk to me at Abagond? Your mood/manner switch up so much, are you role playing to get people to reveal themselves? Why did you keep asking me to identify my race? For all I know, tomorrow you will have taken things I’ve said here and are lambasting me over there with it, but this isn’t about me believe it or not. If I can influence the way people see Serbs, I have to try. The US is a very dangerous master for us to have.

    Believe it or not.

  4. No Linda, Im not out to harm you. Matter of fact, my interaction with you on Abagond was to help you; to help all people. Once again, the simple questions I asked you had no “right” or “wrong” answers. Any answer you gave would be valid as long as it was the truth.

    In addition, the charge of “making the discussion about yourself” is not so much a “white thing” as it is a “feminine thing”. Its called solipsism and females are probably hardwired to engage in it due to evolutionary selection pressures. Racism functions as a giant “prison” for all people, including the white people who function as its guards, warden, staff… No person has the choice of non participation, it is simply not an option. All people are born into this prison and learn to “get in where we fit in”. We get additional “motivation” from parents, peers, and the economics of prison life.

    Your response at Abagonds was that of a person claiming to have transcended the prison; like you are immune to its rules and regulations? I called you out on it and you got angry.

    Sorry Linda, but thats my job. Its your job too. I understand that as a person who has access to a “uniform” and COULD function as a guard, my behavior annoys you; but I am not the problem. Neither are you. The problem is the prison.

    The question is, what are WE going to do about it?

    This is a huge problem because everybody is born in the prison, including the guards. Some guards are tired of running the prison, some inmates want to become guards… and its becoming more confusing and messy everyday.

    Abagonds blog is constructive, because it is correct for the inmates to gather and discuss the prison; how bad it is, how this or that inmate was mistreated, what the guards did in the past, what they are doing today…

    The problem is they often never get to the point of describing WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT?

    How often do you see a SUGGESTED ACTION as a response on Abagonds blog?

    Its actually quite rare given the volume of words in use. Bitching and moaning is the basic response most inmates have at the prison; that and arguing with the occasional guard who will take the time to argue with an inmate. And of course, fighting another inmate is always an option.

    So Linda, the question I have for you is:

    What do you do at the prison?

    How do you function?

    BTW– have you seen the movie “Europa Europa?”

  5. The prison is way bigger than just this country. We were just on Death Row, and now we’re dead. That’s the correct way to see me, an escapee from Death Row, who escaped into yet another prison. To insist on defining me as a guard is really just some classic Bigot Behavior, I’ll talk about that later.

    The thing that makes me crazy about the obsessing that Black people are now into, finding racism everywhere like Pam does and talking about it ad infinitum and lashing out at every turn, is that it’s obscuring the real issue. The problem right now is not that Black people can’t ever really pass — that they can never know when it’s going to rear its ugly head. The problem is that, at this moment, Black people are, in fact, passing big time.

    We are in very dire straights. The real wardens, who are under deep cover, have just invaded, and are getting ready to colonize, yet another sovereign nation, all the while LOOKING LIKE YOU. Who do they always get to do their dirty jobs? Did you think that had changed? So, what are Black people obsessing on while they are being set up as the fall guys in the coming Apocalypse? Some senile old fart like Donald Sterling?

    Y’all are the new Israelis — people so obsessed with their own victimization they don’t notice who they’re victimizing. We (now colonized by the West, former Soviet bloc countries) are your Palestinians. You have colonized and enslaved us. We are your bitches, wearing your collar. This is not just a bedroom game the brothers like to play. It’s a trophy collected on the way to Armageddon.

    Y’all are the wealthiest, most powerful minority on earth, and you have taken your place on the world stage. That’s just cold, hard fact backed up by incalculable amounts of lethal weaponry. And the reason that these figureheads are now in place as Joint Chief of Staff or Head of State is that the prison wardens know that the population these figureheads are a part of is paralyzed with the torment of passing, unable to deal with what they are becoming, and venting their angst on completely irrelevant targets.

    That’s why I say it’s Bigot Behavior. Bigots are always talking about themselves in a dishonest way that deflects their distress onto someone else. Growth never occurs, only greater distress.

    No, I haven’t seen Europa Europa.

    Should I post these thoughts at Abagond? Or would it be a waste of time? They’re just obsessed with mistaking an escapee for a guard. An escapee from a prison where we only ever knew the torment of passing and have seen every possible variation on the theme. over a span of centuries.

  6. Linda, you can post “thoughts” all you want; but what black people really need are constructive suggestions. the best thing to SAY, and the best thing to DO, in any given situation.

    And even then you might end up with a “black knife” in your back; I know I have.

    Your description of black Americans is basically accurate. If you gotta be black, the U.S is one of the best places to be it; I know of no where else a black person can be fat and poor at the same time. But that don’t make it easy. I don’t take offense at your comment but many black people would.

    BTW– Im not defining you as a “guard”. Im defining you as a person “guards” can mistake for a “guard.” Are you saying you never had a white person make a racist comment to you with the assumption you were in agreement?

    This is the whole plot of “Europa Europa”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jPBW8E7_4g

    I feel your pain and all that, but black people are justified in suspecting you could handle it like “Solomon” does in the movie; after all, we are well aware of what is at stake, and I suspect you are too?

    What do you seek from black people? Acceptance as a fellow victim? Christ like reverence? Observer status?

    You gotta be clear.

    Black people at Abagonds are confused about what you are trying to do?

    I ain’t handin out any awards, candy, balloons… I may even halt all ass whuppins if I get really annoyed.

    If its up to me nobody gets nothin as long as the prison stands.

  7. “Are you saying you never had a white person make a racist comment to you with the assumption you were in agreement?” OMG, White people were absolutely rank to be around in the 70s in Chicago. Anytime there was nothing but white people in the room, the reining Bigot would dive in with rank N jokes. And all you had to do was not laugh and you’d be a Suspect. Everyone would distance themselves. And then let somebody see you with your bf and there that revolving door would get to rolling. It made no difference while I was in school with stupid typing jobs that took a few days to replace. It wasn’t until I’d started working at real jobs that were important to getting my start in the film biz that it mattered. And it mattered all right. Never did get that start. Ultimately I just engineered a life that was as far off the grid as I could get.

    When your humanity has been denied as profoundly as ours was in those camps, and in those pits, and all the traumas leading up to that that went on for generations earlier, throwing a bucket of whitewash on you when you come to this country does not necessarily enable you with any palpable privilege. It may just make you feel invisible. My belief is that there is a ritual that such a person needs, that requires at least one other person, to restore that humanity. It may take repeated applications.

    That’s what I was coveting I saw other people giving to each other all the time. To try relating that quest like I did the other day, just to have people say that, okay, you went through all that, so what? So did my momma and she was still a racist and so are you has nightmare qualities to it. I wasn’t angry. I was crying, but I of course didn’t say it, since a WW’s tears were also being ridiculed.

    I really dread going to my peeps now, my Serbs, and telling them what I went through trying to find them, but those people I mistook for them never felt for me, just used me. I dread that more than anything. So in the novel I’ve made up an imaginary character who responds appropriately. It’s really just me loving myself, but you know, it ain’t quite the same as a good love scene, is it?

  8. Linda, one of the reasons I think black people should study Yugoslavia and as you say: “The prison is way bigger than just this country” is because as racism is refined it becomes more confusing; which is how many of us view the racism you describe in Serbia.

    You can already see it happening in the U.S. The simple dichotomy of black VS white is breaking down as more and more people notice the true dimensions of the prison, more and more people are “mixed” and especially in terms of economic stratification; Obama has nothing in common with the people burning and looting in Ferguson over the Michael Brown Shooting.

    I think the real issue for the future of the U.S is “collectivism”; what its gonna look like and how its gonna work. Most people don’t realize it but racism is a form of collectivism. So is the Catholic church, So is feminism…

    People need to ask themselves, what rights/abilities are you willing to sacrifice in order for your group to be strong enough to defend itself from other groups? Because groups are going to exist; always have, always will.

    I think race and color, are the lowest level of social organization and contain built in weaknesses because the bar is so low. You don’t have to DO any thing, ACCOMPLISH anything to be a member; I point this out to the racists by asking them: “what are you going to do with all the 80 IQ white girls?” Then I go to the “Proud to be blackers” and ask; “Did you make yourself black?”

    But wait, the confusion gets worse; already in the U.S “machines” (computers) are making more and more decisions regarding resources and benefits allocation, based on zip codes, algorithms and other data. What happens to racism when robots are patrolling the ghetto?

    I guess the big question is: will confusion makes things better or worse?

  9. How are you defining collectivism? I haven’t heard it used in this context. Interesting.

    I’ve been thinking about this all week. That trauma that that elite kid went through was important. It might be the only thing in his childhood that lets him know who he is and what his people have been through. Relatively innocuous racism may have it’s value. Like a polio vaccine. If people don’t go through that, that unifying theme is lost. The identity of the group and it’s loyalty to itself is lost. How weird is that?

    What makes me think about it is the story of what happened to us in the Kordun. The Croats were our buddies for centuries. They were going through the same thing. They just had different masters. There were stories of Croatian serfs being chased naked by dogs for sport. It was when they had the illusion they could become real European white people that they turned on us. I grew up in the Bigot Belt and I heard a lot of hateful racist things about black people, but it wasn’t as bad as what I’ve heard Black people saying about each other.

    If there wasn’t that unifying thread, that common enemy, how much worse would things be?

    “Proud to be blackers” LOL I heard something interesting recently. The German culture has become intensely anti-patriotic as a reaction to their Nazi past. To be proud of being German is considered a fault. Just as you said, “Did you ask to be German?” is how people are admonished.

    I had another thought. What if everybody over there that was swarming on me this past week went to bed tonight and their fairy godmother put a spell on them and they woke up white. What should they do? Should they try telling everybody they’re still the same person? They’re not really white? They don’t think like white people, they don’t feel the same way, and they are NOT RACISTS!! But then you can give them the run-down on all the privileges they have looking like they do, and if they try to distance themselves they’re identifying themselves as suspects. And if they expect any attention they’re just wallowing in a white privilege. Imagine what that will do to Pam’s rap. She’d have to get on a soapbox and discredit herself. Warn everyone not to listen to her.

    Or would some of them be overjoyed at the transformation, and the prospects that they can now live a free life?

    Sounds like a story concept.

  10. Im defining collectivism like its used to describe the practice of communism; except instead of a ban on private property, the ban is on private thoughts (which is the foundation of speech and action). Collectivism is a pejorative precisely because the racists use it to describe communism; even though they themselves engage in it.

    For example, some racists insist on banning inter-racial sex for everyone but themselves; they demand an exemption from the collectivism they force everyone else to function under. Black people do it too; “I hate white people, they are the devil; but not my girlfriend Becky, she’s different.”

    I have both practical and intelectual problems with collectivism of any kind; this is why I get attacked at Abagonds. If you make the revelation of truth your religion, you will eventually reveal the collectivist nature of what ever forum, organization, or group you are participating in. Its there, but often hidden behind a slick “mission statement”, “democracy”, fake brotherhood and especially LIBERALISM; they are among the worst offenders and often the quickest to stab you in the back for failure to toe the unstated “party line.”

    “How dare you raise the possibility that Michael Brown was a thug who attacked a police officer?”

    “Don’t you know he is our generations Rosa Parks?”

    I think it was Marx who said: “History repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce.

    Linda wrote: “I had another thought. What if everybody over there that was swarming on me this past week went to bed tonight and their fairy godmother put a spell on them and they woke up white. What should they do?”

    They should probably do what I see SOME white people doing all the time; just going around solving problems, helping people engage in constructive activities, fixing things, correcting things… and not bragging or show boating about it.

    There is really no need for a white person to run around trying to prove they are not a racist; thats like me running around trying to prove Im not a homosexual.

    I think I figured you out Linda. You want to beatification by the most suffering victims (black people) so you can qualify yourself for self acceptance.

    It is said there were two guys who got crucified with Jesus Christ; one on the right, and one on the left. The one on the left said,”fuck you, you ain’t the messiah, if you were you wouldn’t be up here with us?”

    The one on the right said something like, “Im guilty. Unlike you, I deserve to be here. If I confess my sins will you forgive me?”

    Its not a criticism of you Linda; its just that black people are less like Jesus and more like the guy on the left.

  11. “You want to beatification by the most suffering victims (black people) so you can qualify yourself for self acceptance.”

    I wouldn’t say it that way, that’s too harsh. Ever since childhood, all these years since, I’ve been beautifying people going through things like that (Black, Jewish, Indian). Knowing now the backstory, that’s quite reasonable. A relatively healthy response. Whole lot better than thinking we’re all worthless, which is the initial reaction you have when that shit happens to you.

    I want a little bit of quid pro quo. If all that’s happened to Black people was so important to me for a lifetime, like it was the same as it was happening to me, I want to feel like there are a few Black people around me who feel that what’s happened to us is important too, who can feel it, a little bit of what I’ve felt. Yep, that sentence triggers a lot of feelings. Like if someone were really listening to me and felt for me, I’d start crying. In a good way, that might do some good. Like resolve something. Bring some closure.

    Or are all our needs just so frozen, nothing will ever touch them?

  12. I’m curious: what _exactly_ is your relationship or view of Black people, anyways? I’m having a hard time grasping it. Do you see them as a fellow, an enemy, both? Because of, or despite the common experience of oppression? Because of it? And with that comment about the “privilege”, are you saying it’s good to have some kind of “privilege” over blacks? I’m having trouble making sense of just what it is you’re saying.

  13. I’ll answer your question from Abagond first:

    t’s difficult to respond rationally to those accusations. Too many feelings come up. How it feels? Perhaps you’ve read Thwack’s brilliant analogy above that racism is a prison that everyone is in, be it as warden or guard or inmate or trustee. I feel like an escapee from death row in another prison. When I get those accusations it feels like I’m in solitary.

    Some blacks I’ve been close to I believe are becoming what they hate,and the degree to which they have become oppressive and abusive to the people around them is the degree to which they’re protesting their own victimization. They can’t see it at all. And as they become more shrill with the latter they become more abusive to what are supposed to be their loved ones.

    I saw the same thing in reverse in the white people I grew up around. I could tell exactly who they were by what their racism was focused on. They were talking about themselves. That’s what everyone can do, use it as a shield from seeing the parts of themselves they don’t want to deal with honestly.

    How do I feel about Black people? As a little kid I confused them with Serbs. There was a boatload of emotional baggage that came over with us, and because we didn’t know who we were, or what it was, we couldn’t unpack it. Although we did make some progress once I’d formed that attachment and identification. I don’t think I would have had any kind of life at all if I hadn’t done that. To me, they will always be family. That sense won’t ever go away. Nor do i want it to. They’re my Serbs. I adopted them.

    Of course, since my children are bi-racial the family connection is immutable. They’re never an enemy to me, just family that treats me badly sometimes. The only privilege I feel is to be a part of that family, though sometimes it seems I’m kidding myself, as if I’m the only one who even knows that’s who I am.

    But as we pointed out above. Serbs make feeling like victims an art form.

  14. Ok,

    Ive done a little research on “the Balkans” and will present my translation of what “dear Black People” means.

    Way back in the day, The Turks invaded and occupied the entire area for a few centuries. So you had a situation where the Serbs were the niggers and the Turks were the white people. The Albanians and Kosovars converted to Islam because it meant you got better treatment. The Croats not only stayed Christian, but their mistreatment at the hands of the Turk made them more hard core Christian, basically like fascists.

    The Serbs (bless their heart) became like blacks in the United States; mainly a bunch of bitching and moaning, having the blues, going to church, blaming the “Turkman” for all their problems….

    Fast-forward a few centuries, the Turks get weak and have to withdraw; but all the divisions the Turks encouraged and supported remain. The Croats kinda become like the new white people; lets call them the WASPS, and the Serbs are like Catholics, and the Albanians are like Mexicans.

    There is low level hostility between all these groups but basically, the Croats have the most power and look down on the Serbs; in turn they both look down on the Albanians and Kosovars.

    *stay with me its about to get complicated*

    When the Nazis invade, the Croats, being wanna be white people gladly join them. While the Serbs see a chance to ask their ethnic Russian brothers (Soviets) for help. A good Balkan fighter called Joseph Tito says: “f*ck the Nazis and f*ck the Russian too, they both intend to make all of us their b*tch; I say we create a nation called “Yugoslavia” composed of all the different ethnic groups and this way we avoid being anybodies “side piece.”

    This sounds good to the Serbs, because with communism, the Croats will no longer get to act all “uppity.”

    *everybody will be equal*

    Tito takes power and sets up a unique “soft communist” state; joins the non aligned movement and was the only European head of state to attend the Bandung Conference. In addition, Tito enforces multiculturalism, political correctness, racial sensitivity, affirmative action… all those things the U.S just started doing recently.

    Serbs, Croats, Kosovars… are all FORCED to get along by the state. They are forced to pretend they like each other and punished for being honest with their feelings (just like in the U.S today)

    So when communism collapses in 1991, all their bottled up hatred came spilling out like a tidal wave. Im not sure but I think the Serbs tried to hold the multi ethnic state together but in doing so the “international community” painted them as “nazis” and war criminals (this infuriated the Serbs as they were the ones who fought the Nazis and suffered in WW2, and the Croats were the ones helping the Nazis, and trying to be the f*cking new white people…)

    So after a brutal civil war, not only did the Serbs get blamed for it, but they lost territory, got ethnically cleansed from many areas, and worst of all,

    GOT BRANDED RACISTS!

    *By the worlds biggest racists*

    There you have it. The history of the self loathing Serb.

    So I can kinda understand why Serbians might feel as Linda describes “an affinity” with black Americas because we got f*ck over too despite being the most dedicated to the spirit of the country; and we get blamed for problems we didn’t cause…. And even today, black people don’t really have an identity.

    At least the Serbs have something concrete to anchor themselves to; the Serbian Orthodox Church. So far nothing has been able to kill it; Muslims, Communism, Nazis…

    Must be the beards?

  15. Very good! Few little details: a ‘few’ centuries were more like 530. It gets hard to count where it starts, kind of crept in, though it officially ended guess when? 1860’s!! Of course they tried slipping in again, you know how that goes.

    The Croats didn’t have to deal with the Turk. It was the Austro-Hungarians who made nigras of them. It was Hungarian lords who were known to chase naked Croats with dogs for sport. So, of course, the Croats were totally color-struck with germanic types and fell totally in love with the Aryan Supremacists who arose in the late 19th century.

    The biggest one stirring that pot was a half-Serb Croat who illustrates the ultimate in Passing. Basically, if you’re willing to endorse the extermination of your own folks, not only will they let you pass totally, they’ll put statues of you all over the place and put your face on the currency, like fellow genocider, Andrew Jackson. Think about it, that kind of attitude endorses a total free-for-all. Croats don’t need to feel guilty about hating Serbs since Serbs hate Serbs too. The nursery rhyme “Srbe na vrbe” arose then. “Lynch the Serbs.”

    I’m anticipating when I get down and study the similarities between the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Black American church we’ll find all kinds of amusing and inspiring similarities.

    The bottled up hatreds surfacing in the 90’s had more to do with certain outsiders shaking those carbonated bottles up real good. There’s a documentary you’ll enjoy, if you like Michael Moore style narratives:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEYQ46gH08

    Calling Serbs Nazis just illustrates the Nazi proverb: “If you want people to believe a lie, tell a really big lie.” The film above will explain who told the lie and why.

    You can probably pick up ‘Songs of the Serbian People” by Vasa Mihailovich on Amazon for a song. There are Englishmen who learned Serbian (a difficult language) just so they can read these poems. Like Prince Marko goes on vacation so 10,000 Arabs decide to attack that day. But their time is up when he comes back and kills all 10,000 in a day single-handed. Him and his horse. He lived to be 300. So did his horse.

    AND thousands of Serb soldiers in I believe the 1890s fighting off the much superior Turk forces again swear they all saw Prince Marko AND HIS HORSE leading them to victory.

    The poems were written at a time when, if a Serb and a Turk passed on the road, the Serb would have to get out of the road and let the Turk pass, and the Turk could do whatever he wanted to the Serb, who had no rights the Turk was bound to respect. The songs weren’t sung, they were chanted. Rapped.

  16. There does seem to be an arbitrary process deciding which countries must allow their people to “break away” and which countries can use force to maintain their geographical integrity?

    One problem I have with the majority attitude at Abagonds blog is; despite our b*tching about the white power structure, we really don’t have something BETTER to replace it with?

    Matter of fact, Ive experienced the all black “this” and the all black “that”, and in many ways, there is even LESS accountability and transparency than when white people are running things.

    As black Americans, we benefit greatly from the protocols white people were forced to produce and enact to compensate for their distrust of each other; due process, equal protection of the law, the Bill of Rights…

    I’d rather take my chances with that then adopt the collectivist/big brother approach black people are constantly being sold. Black people are confused because contemporary racism has become systemic in nature. It is now embedded in the activity of commerce so much that even if you are NOT a racist, your participation in the activity of buying and selling (and profiting) results in nonwhite people being mistreated.

    I know several black “slum lords” and they make profits the same way the white “slum lords” do. A whole lot of black people have become very successful in this white supremacy system. Even poor black people get to drive around in shiny metal boxes in this country; there are a lot of white people in the world who don’t get to do that.

    I think the key to counter racism is for black people to make ourselves USEFUL to each other on a humane level instead of a commercial level. This is going to be difficult because it will require a redefinition of the word “profit”,

    Questions:

    1. Why should an inmate value another inmate?

    2. If an inmate is offered a chance to become a guard, should he accept it?

    3. Should a guard offer to become an inmate?

    4. Should the inmates burn down the prison?

    5. What if the guards elect an inmate to be the Warden?

    6. Can the inmate function constructively without the guards?

    7. What would the inmates do without the prison and the guards?

  17. I need you to explain what you mean here:

    “Black people are confused because contemporary racism has become systemic in nature. It is now embedded in the activity of commerce so much that even if you are NOT a racist, your participation in the activity of buying and selling (and profiting) results in nonwhite people being mistreated.”

    What do you mean by ‘systemic?’ Elaborate more on how participating in commerce causes inherent mistreatment of POC? Maybe a few more examples than just slum lords.

    1. Why should an inmate value another inmate?

    So he can value himself.

    2. If an inmate is offered a chance to become a guard, should he accept it?

    As an escaped inmate from another prison, I find the role repulsive. When people tell me I’m still in the uniform nonetheless anxiety issues surface. It’s difficult for me to respond rationally. And the more rational I get, the less people can hear me, since I’m not talking an American language. There’s little in the American language that is rational on this subject.

    3. Should a guard offer to become an inmate?

    It’s probably more helpful to keep the uniform on while aiding and abetting escapes.

    4. Should the inmates burn down the prison?

    Not if they can’t get out in time.

    5. What if the guards elect an inmate to be the Warden?

    They’ll probably do that because they want an ineffectual administration they can run circles around.

    6. Can the inmate function constructively without the guards?

    Not till he gets the prison that’s inside his mind out. But he can’t really function all that constructively with the guards either with that prison in his head.

    7. What would the inmates do without the prison and the guards?

    Not much would be different. The prison is systemic, it’s internalized. So most issues now in place will continue on. Whether they get better will be determined by what kind of resources are available to heal that damage. I’m saying that because my immediate family was dumped into another world, without the prison and guards who were destroying us, but the emotional damage that inflicted went running full bore, all the more so because we were ignorant of the sources. We thought it was just because we were inherently worthless people. So when does that ever end? It looks like the fifth generation out is freeing up, but it may be too soon to say.

    Thank you for finding that bit about the Bandung Conference. I’d remembeedr it as Tito being a founding member of the Third World Organization, but that wasn’t the real name. It was the Non-Aligned Movement. We were the only Caucasians in it. I’ll do a post on it in the future. Excellent analogies on the programs he instituted.

  18. “What do you mean by ‘systemic?’ Elaborate more on how participating in commerce causes inherent mistreatment of POC? Maybe a few more examples than just slum lords.”
    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    The short answer is; all commerce conducted in prison supports and maintains the prison; otherwise there would be no prison.

    The guards maintain the prison using prison labor. An inmate can never pay another inmate more money to dig an escape tunnel than a guard can pay an inmate to detect an escape tunnel.

    Therefore, prison inmates can never really trust each other.

    The prison chaplin, doctor, psychiatrist, chef… all collect a check for “helping” the inmates; but as long as the prison stands, the inmates are being mistreated.

    Why?

    Because they didn’t do anything.

    For a concrete example; black owned companies often leverage the system of white supremacy to exploit black workers; pay them less, poor working conditions…

  19. BTW Linda, thank you for alerting me to the “Weight Of Chains” documentary. It was very interesting because the anti Serb angle was all we got in this country. In addition, I FINALLY understand World War 1.

    Are you familiar with Tom Sunic?

    I just found out a few days ago that he is Croatian. He is a leading member of what I call the “soft racist” branch of the European Right. He is a very smart man with an interesting background; definitely someone to keep an eye on in the future.

    I consider this his most interesting discussion:

    Tomislav Sunic Interviews Andrew Fraser (author of The WASP Question)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWKBYbX3yv4

    Why?

    Because It is so rare to hear two white people engage in a discussion of what it means to be white; especially between a Slav and a Wasp. The discussion starts slow, and they kinda engage in a sorta “dance” trying to feel each other without being too direct; but at one point towards the end they ALMOST start arguing. Very, very interesting.

    BTW — Im about done over at Abagonds due to his annoying “moderation” policy. I understand he is under attack from racists; but his petty, almost childish deletion of comments he “doesn’t like” drives away the smart people. No wonder his blog has such a low level of scholarship and seems so sophomoric. No one of any caliber can stand to participate very long in that atmosphere where mediocrity is rewarded and challenging, critical analysis is punished.

    Plus its full of SIMPs, ignorant black females, and “IM BLACKER THAN YOU!!!!” phony Afro-centric, drunk on melanin negro boosters.

    All overseen by the petty tyrant “Abagond” with his hat on a pole in the middle of the town square…

    What a joke

    (((shakin my head)))

  20. OMG, I can hear it. I can the difference in the accent. This is really deep.

    Listen to how erudite this man’s speech is. How refined. How sure of itself it is. It’s quite elegant, the style of a very superior, charming and brilliant kind of gentleman.

    We don’t sound like that. First of all, we’re louder. We’re more emotionally expressive. We talk a lot about what we feel. There’s a more down-to-earth, lustier style, irregardless of what’s being said. Even when we’re intellectual, we remain ‘common’ as some would say.

    We don’t call it that. We just say we’re real, and they’re not so much. Granted, a form of superiority, but not one that profits us at all, so we feel no guilt in saying it.

    Whatever gripes they have with us derive from that form of superiority. I doubt every incident of genocide attributed to the Serbs until I see evidence that can be trusted. But it’s impossible for us to have gone through what we did like saints to a man. Whatever we did that was wrong in that situation, derived primarily from that sense of moral superiority that we have that can blind us when we fail to be honest with ourselves.

    Or the next thing we know we’re using someone as a scapegoat, and becoming what we hate.

  21. Why don’t you start your own blog? I do WordPress for a living. Let me know if you need any DIY advice.

    What other blogs are there out there? Where there are people are seriously listening to genuine thought?

  22. Thanks for the offer of blog help, but I really don’t have the desire to start one. Does the world really need another blog?

    Actually, the more I interact in cyberspace, the more it annoys me because its all about control, in addition to all the fraud, spam and deception. I consider the “golden age” of the internet to be from about 1999 to 2006.

    Back then it still took some work to produce content and the monetization process was in its infancy. Today the web is clogged with attention whores, click bait, and advertising. And with huge corporations like google spying/building profiles of users, and then using the information to sell them derivatives of what they already consume; people are being turned into cruder, uglier, more bombastic versions of themselves.

    We are being fed our own feces.

    Im in my 40s, so like you, I have a solid foundation of life before the internet; and Im very grateful for it. I have to remind myself that many of these young clowns we deal with on the internet grew up without fathers and/or any structure in their lives. They never read a book, grew up surrounded by a constant stream of audio/visual stimulation… and as a consequence, have never had an original thought of their own.

    When they do it frightens them.

    Have you noticed how most of the males at Abagonds act like females and the females act like males? I see this behavior in real life too. People lack the LANGUAGE to express themselves so they get butt-hurt and call you a troll, or a racist, or my favorite, HITLER!

    LOL

    Personally, I no longer care about helping people understand things, because what most people REALLY want to do is change everything but THEMSELVES; especially black people, we got a bad case of that.

    But its all good because nature has a way of speaking to hard headed people in the only language some of them can understand; and she ALWAYS bats last.

    I could see myself being part of some writers collective. That would probably satisfy the “scribe” part of my nature. Then again, since most blogs have an agenda independent from the truth, I doubt I would last long before I ran afoul of the collective and was driven off into the night. I think I prefer my Jew like “wandering troll” existence.

    When Pam deleted one of my comments on her blog it was the last straw.

    People wanna use me up to the point they realize they can’t control me, and then boot me out the door.

    I’d rather stand outside in the rain and tell the truth even if no one is listening.

    PS– have you considered doing an audiobook/interview?

    You do realize we are rapidly becoming a post literate society?

  23. I really liked it when I was called a ‘very highly refined racist.’ I would have been very butt-hurt were it not for all the laughing it evoked. I must have been concocting all that while changing all those diapers and braiding all those heads. I saw the trailer of Kevin Kostner’s new movie, where he becomes primary caregiver to a little bi-racial granddaughter, going through that early morning ritual for the first time. I’m not a morning person. That was in the ‘last, full measure of devotion” category. I even had in-laws signifying if I let that ordeal go on vacation, while camping. Why did my daughters have to look well groomed while camping?? I like that ‘feral negro’ look.

    “Feral negroes” Did you come up with that? LOL

    I had a very successful forum I started in ’99. There are presently about 500 families deriving from the East who now know what the family story of being ‘Blackfoot’ is all about. We resurrected a large amount of that genealogy and history and even some elements of the culture on that site. Some young cousins have now taken it over. I was moderating in those days, through the midst of the Wannabe Wars. I don’t know anybody who stood longer than we did. It eventually took us apart, too, but i let it lie fallow and now the youngbloods have it, people I KNOW really are my cousins, and it’s roaring back to life, and I don’t even have to work it anymore.

    http://saponitown.com

    So my background is as a moderator. Getting a taste of being a troll is AMAZING. Such freedom! Such self-expression! It’s intoxicating!!

    The problem is that I have to stay on somebody else’s topic and I have too many thoughts looking for an outlet. I’m going to install a forum here and I can have a whole section “Dear Black People” or whatever and just wander around wherever my free associating brain wants to take me.

    And posters can start their own topics, too, that will be as visible as any others. I don’t know why forums have become unfashionable. I can’t get used to blogs after having all that control and freedom.

    I have thought of doing video, youtube kind of monologues. I can’t drive down the road or wash dishes without one cooking in my brain. Thanks for the encouragement.

    There’s another reason to do your own blog — it can become a book or some larger work. That’s why I pushed myself to get involved over there. I have to get a buzz going on my own turf to augment the book I’m trying to finish, and commenting elsewhere helps bring people in. These days publishers or producers want to see that.

    What I write by no means has any popular appeal. It’s only chance for attention is as something controversial. So the TROLL persona may be just the trick.

    I’m trying to get this thing to stop holding everything in moderation, must be some errant plugin. Or maybe it’s Prince Marko. I was told at my baptism that I now have my very own guardian angel. I’m starting to get a feel for the guy. Definitely a guy, and very protective.

    What a rush. LOL.

  24. Some people have better speaking voices than others; but I always suggest authors use their own voice when producing audio of their work. Just like the nature and the real world, everyone/thing is not supposed to be perfect, shiny and manufactured…

    One of the most annoying things about the internet is seeing people with great content, but poor production qualities, and people with poor content, and great production qualities; grrrrrrr its infuriating. I blame the phenomenon of people attempting to do everything themselves, including editing for this problem. Its well settled industry code that an artist should not final edit their own work. Its called “putting fresh eyes” on a project.

    I’ve seen lots of good work that was ruined from “over production” i.e, videos with too many cuts and transitions, unnecessary background music, long intros…. basically people attempting to use every tool in their tool box. They often get their asses kicked in the comments section for it.

    The best work I know of is the people who speak over still images; not a lot of images but good ones. There are several people on Youtube that I only know as voices and in some ways, I feel I know them better because I can’t see them.

    Just recently, a guy who has done these types of VERY GOOD videos for several years decided to include himself and it blew everybodies minds. The comments section was hillarious and quite interesting because nobody saw that coming.

    The event really made my day because it confirmed my observation that real life is far more wonderful and interesting than anything “Hollywood” or “the nooz” can generate.

    And the best thing about it, you can do it all on your laptop. You no longer need a lot of money and equipment.

    I think your “situation” qualifies as interesting content because for most people its a blend of the unique and the familiar; thats a tough balance to strike.

    I have an example if you would like to hear one?

  25. OK, attached is an audio clip of a black person relating an experience with racism and HOW they handled it. There are thousands of stories like this out there; I have more than a few myself.

    I know its a cliche, but truth really is stranger than fiction.

  26. Very clever guy. He sounds like a lawyer. Do you know what his background is?

    Tell me one of your stories.

    Personally, I suck at gutting it out around a bunch of racists who are targeting me. If I don’t quit, they’ll fire me. I start slipping into avoidance behaviors. Next thing you know I’m coming in late all the time and not focusing on where I’m at.

  27. No, he is not a lawyer; and no he is not CLEVER. and that, in some ways, is the key to counter racism science: SIMPLIFICATION. Usually we try to copy the complexity of white people without realizing the complexity is only necessary for those practicing deception.

    You have to be like a 6 year old; thats actually what that guy is doing.

    Listen to it again; he is pulling a “Black Forrest Gump” routine.

    Have you noticed how easily distracted and confused the blacks on Abagond get when a single racist starts talking on a thread? Whatever the conversation is focused on, the discussion is lost as soon as the white person shows up. They go from Michael Brown, to the pyramids, to white womans butts, to CHINA, to black astronauts….

    The ADHD/aspergers/attention deficit is strong in that group.

    My point is, counter racism code is borne of necessity, and despite their bitching and moaning, black people are still relatively “fat and happy” in this country. In addition, black people miss a lot of racial attack simply because they aren’t trying to do anything unsupported and/or resisted by the white supremacists.

    We think white supremacy is about money; but its really about what you DO with money; thats when you as a black person REALLY runs into the racism.

    In the audio above, it was how the black male was FUNCTIONING that brought him under racial attack, not the money he was earning; the money has pictures of white people on it? Counter racism code is similar to Ju Jitsu (Judo) in that you reduce (simplify) an attack into its component forces and then use attacking forces against themselves. Its actually a very simple phenomenon but black people get confused because it requires they be clear about their PURPOSE in the first place. Most black people don’t have a purpose independent from the ones they receive from the white supremacists.

    Let me ask you a question:

    Bill Cosby?

    Do YOU think he is guilty of the charges these women are making?

    or is he under racist attack?

    And, why do you think Abagond refuses to do a thread on Neely Fuller of Francis Cress Welsing?

  28. “Counter racism code is similar to Ju Jitsu (Judo) in that you reduce (simplify) an attack into its component forces and then use attacking forces against themselves.”

    Through Serbian filters, that kind of strategy is mind boggling. We are in awe of it. It derives from the main difference in our histories. — Black Americans being profoundly de-militarized, Serbs being profoundly militarized.We have unusual reflexes that reflect the extreme we lived through and vice versa. Likening it to ju jitsu is perfect. It is a powerful, effective, non-violent instinct. I don’t think you should minimize it. It’s genius. St. Thomas and the Holy Mother changed the world.. Failing to beautify them is internalized racism at work IMO.

    “Have you noticed how easily distracted and confused the blacks on Abagond get when a single racist starts talking on a thread? Whatever the conversation is focused on, the discussion is lost as soon as the white person shows up. They go from Michael Brown, to the pyramids, to white womans butts, to CHINA, to black astronauts….”

    LOL. Actually, the same thing happens whenever anyone white speaks about race, irregardless of what they’re saying. It’s why I’m skeptical that anyone will read the novel I’m trying to finish.

    About Bill Cosby? I don’t know. It would be plausible to write a story about a minority Serbian guy living in Croatia, who was a such a gifted, charismatic comedian that he had people on both sides of the divide feeling less negative about Serbs. He changed their world. The underside to the story is that he was only able to do it by suppressing another part of his nature that was enraged about grandma getting tossed into a blast furnace, which would put him into fugue states in which he assaulted Croatian women. The weakness in that story is, why the 40-year delay? The climate in the country would have supported any Croatian woman making such a claim, even more so 40 years earlier. I guess you could work some media moguls into the script who are making big money from the comedian’s shows, so hush money is spent. Now that he’s old and not making anybody any money, it’s a good time to discredit him and what he represents in inducing harmony and equality.

    he other scenario would involve a Pavelic scion (President when Croatia was a fascist state cremating Serbs alive) who found a way to induce one woman to tell the lie about this man, who’s now old and weak and not making anyone any money. Once one has led the way, it’s quite likely any number of Croatian women will jump into the fray, who he had been intimate with consensually, eager for some of his money in a settlement.

    Maybe there’s a script that could be written that had elements of both going on. In any variation, there’s a malevolent evil powerful character behind the curtain who wants to see that this symbol of harmony becomes a symbol of the old stereotype. Serbs as Evil Rapists. Just watch Angelina Jolie’s “Blood and Honey” to see how popular a genre that is. That is the area in which standard powerful WASPS, oops, I mean Croatians, have developed a genius. How to effect their purposes slyly, covering their tracks, manipulating the masses with lies and exploitations of the truth.

    “We think white supremacy is about money; but its really about what you DO with money; thats when you as a black person REALLY runs into the racism.”

    Yes, it’s the power. They are more ambitious than ever. They don’t just want to exploit people of color. They currently have their sites set on Second World whites, Orthodox Slav nations and their natural allies here, black people, won’t even notice. Colonialism is alive and growing, just slicker. Or like Martin, they will make a conscious decision that they have no choice but to distance themselves from Stanley Levison.

    I had a conversation this week with my friend in Belgrade about neo-colonialism I want to do a thread on. Neo-coloniasm doesn’t call a governor appointed by the conquering nation a governor. They call him an ambassador.

    La plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    Tell me more about Neely Fuller and why Abagond won’t talk about her.

  29. “LOL. Actually, the same thing happens whenever anyone white speaks about race, irregardless of what they’re saying.”
    —————————————————————————————————————–
    Yeah, but when white people do it, they are often practicing racism because their intent is to distract the victims from focusing on what racism is, how it is practiced, and how to counter it. In the prison, the guards and inmates can have discussions all day long; but as soon as the inmates become focused on the question “should we be in prison?” the guards try to change the subject to sports, thimbles, ham sandwiches, which inmate got a little more swill than another inmate…. and especially SEX. These are all techniques of distraction. White people don’t even have to consciously think about doing it; its become an instinctive reflexive behavior; which I take as further evidence of the existence of a system of white supremacy.
    By the way, Neely Fuller is NOT a female, what made you assume he was?
    The reason I raised the issue on Abagonds of Fuller and Welsing is because they are the most serious, focused, productive, and effective architects of counter racism science; but the least known and recognized? I understand why white people are uncomfortable with their work; but if black people are serious about counter racism, that path ends with Fuller and Welsing because no one has gone further down that road than they; the road ends and you are effectively in “unexplored territory.”

    Other than a sign with an arrow saying “here be dragons!” You are on your own. I can’t say Im surprised Abagond has not dedicated a thread to either one. Ive long noticed a similar behavior pattern with any black people attempting to achieve mainstream acceptance (validation by white people). Fuller and Welsing are unacceptable because they focus on how an individual black person can counter racism by changing their own behavior; no marching, no protesting, no begging…
    I confess the routine censorship of Fuller and Welsing by “academic” black people like Abagond has solidified my contempt for black people in general. I can’t take their complaints about racism seriously as long as the work done by Fuller and Welsing is considered “off the table.” Welsing and Fuller are two sides of the same coin. Welsing is the rare academic who sacrificed her career by putting her education in the service of a higher cause (counter racism); while Fuller is like the little boy who said: “hey, the king has no clothing?” Neely Fuller is like a black Forrest Gump; so simple it makes him smart. Have you ever been unable to trick or fool a child through the use of increasingly complex explanations because the child keeps responding with simpler questions?
    Thats Neely Fuller.

    This Bill Cosby situation is very interesting because of how it forces a collision of all the most powerful contemporary social and political dynamics: race, class, drugs, sex…

    Its so volatile that when I ask people face to face what they think about it, I can “feel them” trying to search for the answer they think I want them to give me. Its a very interesting phenomenon; as are all phenomena where lies become a store of value, a medium of exchange and a unit of measure…

    In other words, currency…MONEY.

    BTW– how do you handle black females who give you the “stink eye” for having “mixed children?” And don’t act like you don’t know what Im talking about.
    If you are more comfortable discussing it privately, please feel free to answer via e-mail

  30. Last question first, the ‘stink-eye’ question isn’t much of an issue for me personally. Honestly, black women do not give me bad vibes in public. And personally, they often enough like me. To be really, really honest, if I were gay, I would have been a happy woman long ago who felt really loved, but I’m not, so here I sit, a divorcee. When I think about various phases of my life and try to think of who it was in my world who was the most supportive and saw me for who I am, and had my back, it was a woman of color, nearly always. To say some of my best friends are women of color would be inaccurate. It’s more like all.

    Currently, if I go to McDonald’s or Food Lion in town there’s likely to be a young black woman who calls me out with “Hey momma!”

    Being an anonymous person, identifying herself as white with children of color, on Abagond is the only time I can think of when the attitudes and feelings that I know are there from the media, have been directed at me. In real life, I just haven’t seen it. I remember back in like 1971 I was at a museum in Chicago with my bf and I saw a girl point at us and say “Look, salt and pepper.” I felt a little embarrassed. But that memory goes together with an exhibit that I looked at the same day that was showing all the parts of the body by way of these inch-wide ‘slices’ that had been made of a cadaver. It wasn’t so bad in the horizontal mode, but the vertical slices were of a very short, plain looking naked black woman. In profile view, she was very much visible as an individual, and not looking at all happy. It was horrendously racist to do that to her. I can’t imagine there wasn’t a furor about it long ago and it’s been removed.

    It’s the ‘stink-eye’ from white people that’s been relentless and pervasive and makes me crazy. They don’t even have to look at me and I’ll still feel the vibes I’m so hypersensitive to it at this point. I lost four clients in a couple of months this year, small potatoes locally, because of gossip that went around about me on this subject.

    I know exactly what they think and feel, one of the hardships of having grown up around them and always assumed to be one of them. They tell me everything. It’s why I left Chicago 30 years ago. It’s a death ray that dehumanizes me and I can’t be around it. It’s a violation. I feel raped.

    It’s better for me in the upper south where I am because the local whites consider me a northerner, which means they keep me at arm’s length, which is perfect. Keep that arm way out. I lived in the shelter of a tri-racial isolate community during my marriage, though with the breakup of the marriage and some friends moving away, that’s gone. But now I got my Serbs! The actual, real-life flesh and blood Serbs that’s I’d been unconsciously approximating all these years. And they’re tickled pink with all the trouble I went through to find them.

    White people don’t even have to consciously think about doing it; its become an instinctive reflexive behavior; which I take as further evidence of the existence of a system of white supremacy.

    I can’t deny that there are very few white people I can ever trust. Very few who haven’t been contaminated by the American white identity. Like the Bosniaks in Ferguson, they quickly get pulled into the polarity. Everyone, black and white pulling them in.

    I had a conversation yesterday i wanted to tell you about. I made a new friend at church, we were talking about Serbian language and I asked her for the word for cousin. She went into an explanation of kinships terms and that there were often two uses for a word. ‘Brata’ might refer to your male sibling, or it can just be used for any male you felt friendly towards.

    Later I went into my whole ‘elevator pitch’ the “I didn’t know I was Serb or what had been happening to us . . .” bit and told her the story, which she thought was amazing. Then I was telling her how similar we all are, and I referred to what she’d said earlier about kinship term usage and she said she was going to use Black people’s usage as an example, but she held back, thinking I wouldn’t know what she meant. And I thought, yeah, she’s already picking up that those kinds of analogies are not welcome. It’s not that I wouldn’t know what she was saying, but that I would pretend I didn’t know. She’s already noticed that.

    All that saying, it’s still hard for me to hear someone Black making a statement “White people do this or that” without feeling apprehensive. If there’s no qualifier like, ‘most White people’ somewhere in the mix my anxiety comes up that they are not going to hear me because they’ve dumped me into the white bucket and will interpret anything I say by that association. It’s a crazy dichotomy. I hate it.

    I had a relationship with a valuable critiquer derail because I alienated him by doing several scenes in a row where everybody was being racist towards this girl with a black bf. It didn’t occur to me to write it differently because I was, in that instance, writing from memory. That’s what happened. There was nobody at that school I could trust. And they were hippy dippy student radical ultra liberals. Some had even been in the civil right movement.

    I feel like if there is any vestige of racism left in someone, I will bring it out. LOL. I’m like a canary in a coal mine. It’s just a knee jerk reflex, this revulsion they feel, and they have absolutely no guilt about it whatsoever. They just think they’re being Freudian, perceiving a natural affinity as a perversion. And it doesn’t matter how well I explain it. Ten minutes later they’ll be back to square one with the racist view of the universe. And for ME, another white person, to hint that they’re being racist is intolerable. They just get rid of me.

    It’s because of how traumatized I have become over that persecution that I’m now so vocal about what’s really motivated me all those years. I feel like I have no choice. It’s that or squirrel myself away as a recluse somewhere and hope i don’t live too long. Whole lot of dues paid I didn’t owe, for something I don’t even have.

    I’m not familiar with Neely Fuller. I googled the name and a site came up with a woman’s photo. Can’t find it now. I see there’s a Youtube on White Supremacy. Would that be a good intro?

    I’ve got to get that post about neo-colonialism up. It relates to this, what Nada said is so interesting. And there’s another line of thought I want to develop on the subject of white supremacy. And another on how it is psychologically impossible to be receiving racism from white people as a non-compliant white, and be accused of racism, the way I was a few weeks ago at Abagond. A human identity can’t be divided against itself like that. That would be madness, and I ain’t going crazy for anybody. That’s where I draw the line.

    I sent an email over the weekend. Did you get it?

    What do you think about Bill Cosby?

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